If the debate were simply about inclusion
in terms of equality of rights, I think homosexuals should receive rights for
unions. But why the effort to redefine marriage? Marriage is defined by a
monogamous, legal and religious relationship between a man and a woman. It is a
religious institution. Therefore, this debate is not about equal distribution
of rights and privileges, if it were I think this would be an easier debate.
Simply because homosexuals in certain states do have the same rights and
privileges afforded to a married couple. The debate is really about forced
acceptance of a way of living. I think that is intolerable.
As to the issue of the government’s
role of inclusion versus exclusion, I wonder where the line is. If we are going
to redefine a long held, culturally practiced religious institution such as
marriage because a special interest group carried out an effective lobbying
campaign, what is to stop other groups from wanting the same? For example
NAMBLA (North American Man/Boy Love Association), they argue that what they do
is nature and feels right. They are essentially advocating pedophilia. Why
should we suppress their rights to freely express the love that feels natural
to them?
Some have objected and associated
the Gay rights movement with slavery. To equate the SSM movement with slavery I
think is untenable. Slaves were regarded as less than humans. A slave constituted
3/5 of a person and from that supposition the atrocities of slavery were
justified. Homosexuals are not regarded as less than a person; in fact
individually they have the same rights as a heterosexual person. In the case of
legally recognized unions, as I have stated before several states afford the
same rights to same-sex unions as they do to married heterosexual people and I
think that is appropriate. We need not redefine marriage to afford SSM’s the
same rights as heterosexual people.
Where the trouble comes in is that
homosexual lobbying groups not only wants parodied union rights, but they also
want to change the definition marriage so that their lifestyle is accepted.
This to me is ridiculous. To we live in a free country where people can have
various and conflicting viewpoints. But for one person or group to then go a
step beyond that and say, not only is my lifestyle allowable, it must also be
accepted and legalized. I say if you want to live a gay lifestyle then live a
gay lifestyle, however, to demand that we redefine a long held, culturally
practiced, religious institution is wrong.
In regards to the objection of, “What
two consenting adults do is their own decision, if it doesn’t affect anyone
else, why is it wrong?” If I didn’t hold a Christian worldview then I would
wholeheartedly agree with this with it not being wrong. But you have to
understand that this question assumes moral relativity. Meaning, what’s right
for you is right, but what is right for me is also right, regardless of any
apparent differences or contrasts. There is not final arbiter of right and
wrong, it is merely a social construct that is subject to change depending on
the culture or individual within the culture. This I cannot agree with, I
believe morality is objective, in that is true, binding, immaterial and
invariant regardless if a person or culture recognizes it or not. If this were
not case then murder for some would be right and no one could say otherwise. Or
lying would be right for some and no one could contest that, the result would
be chaos.
These are pretty common mistakes;
moral relativity seems on the surface the fairest position to take. However, if
you were to really examine the logic of moral relativism and all of its logical
entailments, the picture would be somewhat frightening. In his book When God Goes to Starbucks: A Guide to
Everyday Apologetics Paul Copan, an apologist, discussed four central
maxims or moral relativism that seem on the surface an appeal to fairness, but
have a hidden assumption underlining its arguments that are riddled with
problems.
·
““You can do whatever you want— as long as it’s between two consenting
adults.” What if the two consenting adults engage in sadomasochistic acts?
Aren’t such actions deviant? And why limit the discussion to adults? What’s
ultimately wrong with lowering the age of sexual consent, as the North American
Man/Boy Love Association desires?
·
“You can do whatever you want— as long as it’s in the privacy of your own
home.” Again, why should absolute autonomists insist on privacy as opposed
to doing whatever one wants in public—
including shouting, “Fire!” in a crowded theater or “Bomb!” on a transatlantic flight?
And is child abuse or wife-beating okay since it’s done in the “privacy” of one’s
home?
·
“People can believe and do whatever they want; they should just be tolerant of other’s
views.” If the relativist believes that her views are true for her but not
necessarily for others, then why should she insist on laying this standard of
tolerance on everyone— relativist or not? Where does that standard come from?
What is if a person doesn’t want to be “tolerant” (whatever that means)?
·
“You can do what you want; just don’t violate another person’s rights.” Why respect anyone’s
rights? Where do rights even come from in a godless world? How can the
relativist believe we can do what we want but, out of the other side of her mouth,
insist that other’s rights ought to be respected? Isn’t it ironic (and
contradictory) that our society both freely accepts the “true for you but not
for me” relativism as well as insists on watching out for people’s “inviolable
rights”? If relativism is justified, humans don’t have rights that ought to be
respected. If humans have genuine rights, then relativism is false.” (p. 24).
There is much more I could say on
this topic and would if I had the time, more could be said such as an argument
from history— how homosexuality has been viewed historically. The argument of
the slippery slope (already alluded to)— if we open the door for SSM what’s to
stop any group, fetish, or desire to be limited if we assume moral and cultural
relativity? The argument from identity and purpose— do we define and shape the
way we live based on our own preferences and desires, on upon a higher law or
are there fixed norms that are inherently obvious from an outside source namely
God? The argument from false neutrality— it is patently false to claim
neutrality and a non-bias in this issue, for to say that the state should be
neutral about gay marriage is a moral stance and position. To be neutral on the
issue is passive agreeance. For example, the statement there is no right and
wrong, to say this is not being unbiased, this is absolutely a position with
a consequent truth claim of moral relativity. I could go on, there are many
more arguments that could be made, but I will stop here.
I am agnostic or atheist, does that mean I can't marry? Religion is anathema to me, but b/c it's a man and a women legally I can marry, correct? So where does the religious argument fit in this scenario. You gotta quit equating pedophilia w/ homosexuality. NAMBLA is about consent changing lawss of consent, they want sex w/ people below the age of consent. Homosexuality is about consenting adults. Sorry son, strawman argument!!
ReplyDeleteI would agree with you if I were equating the two, fortunately I haven't done that in my blog. I don't see homosexuals and NAMBLA people in the same category, however, my argument (which you still haven't addressed or any of the others I've laid out) is if we allow a special interest group representing a very small percentage of the population to change the definition of marriage to suit their lifestyle, that in turn opens the door for other groups doing the same. They can have equal rights for all I care, but why mess with marriage though?! That's a whole other issue! The reason they want to redefine marriage in light of their lifestyle is to be force acceptance of their lifestyle on others. Call it unions or a life partnership or whatever, but its not marriage if its same sex.
ReplyDeleteYou've stated yourself that we shouldn't legislate morality, well, why are we then legislating immorality!? And what's worse, legislating morality or immorality? I would say legislating immorality. What's immoral even between two consenting adults is still immoral. But I agree with you, if a nonbeliever wants to be immoral then let them, we live by different standards. Its a whole other story when the two worlds collide and marriage is going to be redefined and I have to legally recognize their immorality.
You've also said, what they do in their own home is their own business. I agree, so why try to force legal recognition of what they do in their own home?! Do you see my point? You can't have it both ways, to not legislate private actions, and then argue that a lifestyle be legally recognized as marriage, that's self-contradicting.
Its not about equality, its about forcing people to accept their way of life, and I respectfully disagree, I'm not going to stop them from getting equal rights for same sex unions, but force everyone to legally recognize their same sex unions as marriage is wrong.
As to the issue of an agnostic or atheist, whether religion is anathema to them or not, by getting married they are participating in a religious institution.
This is a good little video on a well thought out response to homosexuality from a christian perspective:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIw6ngIqaD0